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	<title>Comments on: A failure of logic</title>
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	<link>http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2011/04/22/a-failure-of-logic/</link>
	<description>K.Mandla's blog of Linux experiences</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: A serious reminder &#171; Motho ke motho ka botho</title>
		<link>http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2011/04/22/a-failure-of-logic/#comment-49217</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[A serious reminder &#171; Motho ke motho ka botho]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2011 23:36:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2011/04/22/a-failure-of-logic/#comment-49217</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] And yet, after watching this quick 20-minute Frontline video, I am ashamed at my dismissive comment the other day, about ecology not being at the forefront of my concerns. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] And yet, after watching this quick 20-minute Frontline video, I am ashamed at my dismissive comment the other day, about ecology not being at the forefront of my concerns. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: kache</title>
		<link>http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2011/04/22/a-failure-of-logic/#comment-49139</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[kache]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Apr 2011 23:58:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2011/04/22/a-failure-of-logic/#comment-49139</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My 2 cents: the reason the programs now require more resources is that the programmers use the power of the new machines to add more options and more things to the program, so now it can do more things (possibly at the same time) and give the user more eye-candy. :)
Also, just found out about this blog. Gonna add it to my greader feed.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My 2 cents: the reason the programs now require more resources is that the programmers use the power of the new machines to add more options and more things to the program, so now it can do more things (possibly at the same time) and give the user more eye-candy. <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
Also, just found out about this blog. Gonna add it to my greader feed.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: steve</title>
		<link>http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2011/04/22/a-failure-of-logic/#comment-49073</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[steve]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Apr 2011 15:14:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2011/04/22/a-failure-of-logic/#comment-49073</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This reminds me, I must install compiz...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This reminds me, I must install compiz&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Robert Pogson</title>
		<link>http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2011/04/22/a-failure-of-logic/#comment-49050</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robert Pogson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Apr 2011 11:14:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2011/04/22/a-failure-of-logic/#comment-49050</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I find the post very relevant to what I have seen in schools with diverse computers and diverse users. When I put GNU/Linux on a machine that formerly ran XP, boot times to the login screen are similar with a slight edge to GNU/Linux. When logging in however XP is 2 to 3 times slower. A lot of that is because XP starts swapping immediately on low-RAM systems even while it thinks it is pre-loading software that may or may not be used...

There are a number of issues affecting boot speed. Size of code and number of files all reflect bloat. Another biggy is that the OS needs to load many files and most PCs have a single hard drive making it the bottleneck. On machines where speed of booting matters, I put multiple hard drives in RAID 1 and boot times improve dramatically. This is accelerated further with &quot;dependency based booting&quot;, that is the order in which files are loaded may be determined by dependencies and starting several processes to load things with different chains of dependencies really helps. I have seen virtual machines with dependency-based booting work in under 4s.

After you have reduced bottlenecks to a minimum there is still another method of speeding booting/loading of apps, terminal servers. Have a big powerful machine idling with all the needed files in cache/RAM. A login on that machine will be 5X faster than a cold machine. Then connect thin clients with a minimal system and dependency-based booting and you have the optimal performance. I have used GNU/Linux terminal servers and thin clients in classrooms for years. When students get used to 2-5s logins to a working desktop and sub-2s loading of browser or word-processor, they feel pain when faced with the usual desktop with single hard drive.

My terminal servers are using fast hard drives 500gB+ or SCSI and lots of RAM with a gigabit/s network interface to the clients. I can do this magic even with an 8 year old PC and beat the pants off a new PC. I would love to use SSD but so far the price/performance isn&#039;t where it needs to be.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find the post very relevant to what I have seen in schools with diverse computers and diverse users. When I put GNU/Linux on a machine that formerly ran XP, boot times to the login screen are similar with a slight edge to GNU/Linux. When logging in however XP is 2 to 3 times slower. A lot of that is because XP starts swapping immediately on low-RAM systems even while it thinks it is pre-loading software that may or may not be used&#8230;</p>
<p>There are a number of issues affecting boot speed. Size of code and number of files all reflect bloat. Another biggy is that the OS needs to load many files and most PCs have a single hard drive making it the bottleneck. On machines where speed of booting matters, I put multiple hard drives in RAID 1 and boot times improve dramatically. This is accelerated further with &#8220;dependency based booting&#8221;, that is the order in which files are loaded may be determined by dependencies and starting several processes to load things with different chains of dependencies really helps. I have seen virtual machines with dependency-based booting work in under 4s.</p>
<p>After you have reduced bottlenecks to a minimum there is still another method of speeding booting/loading of apps, terminal servers. Have a big powerful machine idling with all the needed files in cache/RAM. A login on that machine will be 5X faster than a cold machine. Then connect thin clients with a minimal system and dependency-based booting and you have the optimal performance. I have used GNU/Linux terminal servers and thin clients in classrooms for years. When students get used to 2-5s logins to a working desktop and sub-2s loading of browser or word-processor, they feel pain when faced with the usual desktop with single hard drive.</p>
<p>My terminal servers are using fast hard drives 500gB+ or SCSI and lots of RAM with a gigabit/s network interface to the clients. I can do this magic even with an 8 year old PC and beat the pants off a new PC. I would love to use SSD but so far the price/performance isn&#8217;t where it needs to be.</p>
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		<title>By: Dann</title>
		<link>http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2011/04/22/a-failure-of-logic/#comment-49049</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dann]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Apr 2011 10:54:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2011/04/22/a-failure-of-logic/#comment-49049</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s not only the disk, it&#039;s the disk FILESYSTEM.

Just think.
Most of our usb drives come with FAT32 by default. That is NOT a great filesystem in general, though when used on flash memory it will perform better than on an ATA drive.
NTFS has been going strong for 10+ years with little improvement. Wonder why 7 takes as long to boot as XP? 

With the advent of ext4 for Linux/BSD-based OS&#039;s, things have gotten much faster. 10 second boot times? Been done. Instant On? Also done. Running a server? You have Reiser, JFS and XFS if you don&#039;t like EXT&#039;s, or BTFS if you&#039;re adventerous. 

Oh, and have you perhaps tried running on RAID? Raptors with 15000 rpm?
Disk encryption will slow down boot times as well, there are many factors involved.
A lot of older laptops used 4200rpm 2.5&#039; disks. Now we have 7200.

That&#039;s also forgetting functionality and OS bloat.
Obviously this man has never used DSL or Puppy Linux on a cdrom, the slower readable medium.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not only the disk, it&#8217;s the disk FILESYSTEM.</p>
<p>Just think.<br />
Most of our usb drives come with FAT32 by default. That is NOT a great filesystem in general, though when used on flash memory it will perform better than on an ATA drive.<br />
NTFS has been going strong for 10+ years with little improvement. Wonder why 7 takes as long to boot as XP? </p>
<p>With the advent of ext4 for Linux/BSD-based OS&#8217;s, things have gotten much faster. 10 second boot times? Been done. Instant On? Also done. Running a server? You have Reiser, JFS and XFS if you don&#8217;t like EXT&#8217;s, or BTFS if you&#8217;re adventerous. </p>
<p>Oh, and have you perhaps tried running on RAID? Raptors with 15000 rpm?<br />
Disk encryption will slow down boot times as well, there are many factors involved.<br />
A lot of older laptops used 4200rpm 2.5&#8242; disks. Now we have 7200.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s also forgetting functionality and OS bloat.<br />
Obviously this man has never used DSL or Puppy Linux on a cdrom, the slower readable medium.</p>
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		<title>By: Roger</title>
		<link>http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2011/04/22/a-failure-of-logic/#comment-49044</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Roger]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Apr 2011 05:35:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2011/04/22/a-failure-of-logic/#comment-49044</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It is not lazy programmers.  It is planned obsolescence.  These companies need to support the hardware vendors that support them.  They are creating a need for the public to replace working hardware so bolster the profits of the hardware companies so that in turn the hardware companies will support them.  This is true even of apple since apple does not design and build all of the components that they build their machines out of.

It is not just operating speed that changes but they introduce new interfaces or protocols that need new dedicated hardware to operate at speed.  When they have a choice to modify an existing platform to enhance performance in a backward compatible way, they are just as likely to introduce a completely new way to connect it to a computer so that you have to replace your whole system just to use the new tech.

What I do not understand is why Gnome 3 needs accelerated graphics except for a little polish on the look and feel.  The underlying organization and operation certainly do not look that demanding.  I know that they need it to look sparkly to shiny and new to compete with the proprietary offerings.  It does nothing for people who are more utilitarian like me.

I have a Windows 7 machine that I power up once every couple of months when there is some dreary need.  I have all of the &quot;special&quot; graphics features turned off that I can.  They do nothing but waste my time.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is not lazy programmers.  It is planned obsolescence.  These companies need to support the hardware vendors that support them.  They are creating a need for the public to replace working hardware so bolster the profits of the hardware companies so that in turn the hardware companies will support them.  This is true even of apple since apple does not design and build all of the components that they build their machines out of.</p>
<p>It is not just operating speed that changes but they introduce new interfaces or protocols that need new dedicated hardware to operate at speed.  When they have a choice to modify an existing platform to enhance performance in a backward compatible way, they are just as likely to introduce a completely new way to connect it to a computer so that you have to replace your whole system just to use the new tech.</p>
<p>What I do not understand is why Gnome 3 needs accelerated graphics except for a little polish on the look and feel.  The underlying organization and operation certainly do not look that demanding.  I know that they need it to look sparkly to shiny and new to compete with the proprietary offerings.  It does nothing for people who are more utilitarian like me.</p>
<p>I have a Windows 7 machine that I power up once every couple of months when there is some dreary need.  I have all of the &#8220;special&#8221; graphics features turned off that I can.  They do nothing but waste my time.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Lockoore</title>
		<link>http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2011/04/22/a-failure-of-logic/#comment-49042</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike Lockoore]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Apr 2011 01:51:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2011/04/22/a-failure-of-logic/#comment-49042</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The bloated, slow apps using bloated, slow libreries in bloated slow operating systems (Windows) and distros (Fedora) drove me crazy and prompted me to develop small, fast apps in TinyCore Linux. I try to only use the built-in FLTK GUI library. I&#039;ve made a 115K gui file manager, a 40K picture/slideshow viewer, and a similarly-sized clock/sound/battery tray-type app. Some of us are still trying to be efficient. Steve Gibson is an inspiration to me. I wish he kept sharing his projects.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The bloated, slow apps using bloated, slow libreries in bloated slow operating systems (Windows) and distros (Fedora) drove me crazy and prompted me to develop small, fast apps in TinyCore Linux. I try to only use the built-in FLTK GUI library. I&#8217;ve made a 115K gui file manager, a 40K picture/slideshow viewer, and a similarly-sized clock/sound/battery tray-type app. Some of us are still trying to be efficient. Steve Gibson is an inspiration to me. I wish he kept sharing his projects.</p>
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		<title>By: Tobias Mann</title>
		<link>http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2011/04/22/a-failure-of-logic/#comment-49039</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tobias Mann]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Apr 2011 00:03:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2011/04/22/a-failure-of-logic/#comment-49039</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ok yeah lazy programmers yes, and the fact that most of the new hardware isn&#039;t being accessed efficiently. Most programmers aren&#039;t writing software to take advantage of multi core and multi threaded hardware. Plain and simple. Also there may be a feeling that because the hardware is so powerful it can just brute force its way through poor code rather than in the past where if you wanted a program to work it needed to be neat and efficient.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok yeah lazy programmers yes, and the fact that most of the new hardware isn&#8217;t being accessed efficiently. Most programmers aren&#8217;t writing software to take advantage of multi core and multi threaded hardware. Plain and simple. Also there may be a feeling that because the hardware is so powerful it can just brute force its way through poor code rather than in the past where if you wanted a program to work it needed to be neat and efficient.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Hippytaff</title>
		<link>http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2011/04/22/a-failure-of-logic/#comment-49037</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hippytaff]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Apr 2011 23:10:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2011/04/22/a-failure-of-logic/#comment-49037</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well that was a touchy subject!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well that was a touchy subject!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: (no subject) &#171; Motho ke motho ka botho</title>
		<link>http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2011/04/22/a-failure-of-logic/#comment-49036</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[(no subject) &#171; Motho ke motho ka botho]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Apr 2011 23:05:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2011/04/22/a-failure-of-logic/#comment-49036</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] K.Mandla&#8217;s blog of Linux experiences BlogAboutHowtosHardwareSoftwareProjects         &#171; A failure of&#160;logic [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] K.Mandla&#8217;s blog of Linux experiences BlogAboutHowtosHardwareSoftwareProjects         &laquo; A failure of&nbsp;logic [...]</p>
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