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	<title>Comments on: Rationalizing a CLI lifestyle</title>
	<atom:link href="http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2010/12/25/rationalizing-a-cli-lifestyle/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2010/12/25/rationalizing-a-cli-lifestyle/</link>
	<description>K.Mandla's blog of Linux experiences</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Tutute</title>
		<link>http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2010/12/25/rationalizing-a-cli-lifestyle/#comment-47586</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tutute]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Jan 2011 13:32:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2010/12/25/rationalizing-a-cli-lifestyle/#comment-47586</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve been enjoying reading your blog for a long time now, and it has slowly pushed me over to a more and more text based system. Or for now more correctly a mouseless system, after I found muscawm, that is my wm, and my most used program is the terminal emulator, I could probably go over to only cli by now, since that&#039;s where I do most of my tasks, but for now this seems like the sweet spot. For web browsing I&#039;m using opera and chrome with the vrome plugin for keyboard only browsing, and my hands thank me for not having to use the touchpad on my laptop every day ;)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been enjoying reading your blog for a long time now, and it has slowly pushed me over to a more and more text based system. Or for now more correctly a mouseless system, after I found muscawm, that is my wm, and my most used program is the terminal emulator, I could probably go over to only cli by now, since that&#8217;s where I do most of my tasks, but for now this seems like the sweet spot. For web browsing I&#8217;m using opera and chrome with the vrome plugin for keyboard only browsing, and my hands thank me for not having to use the touchpad on my laptop every day <img src='http://s1.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Hippytaff</title>
		<link>http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2010/12/25/rationalizing-a-cli-lifestyle/#comment-47384</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hippytaff]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Dec 2010 00:30:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2010/12/25/rationalizing-a-cli-lifestyle/#comment-47384</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Nothing is jeopardised...just got clearance to wish you  a Happy New  Year from the missus too! (not that she knows of the extent of your genius) but none the less (or monk the more :?) happy new year from both of us :-D

;-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nothing is jeopardised&#8230;just got clearance to wish you  a Happy New  Year from the missus too! (not that she knows of the extent of your genius) but none the less (or monk the more <img src='http://s1.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_confused.gif' alt=':?' class='wp-smiley' /> ) happy new year from both of us <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':-D' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
 <img src='http://s1.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: K.Mandla</title>
		<link>http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2010/12/25/rationalizing-a-cli-lifestyle/#comment-47382</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[K.Mandla]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Dec 2010 23:05:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2010/12/25/rationalizing-a-cli-lifestyle/#comment-47382</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Don&#039;t jeopardize your marriage on my account! :shock: :mrgreen: 

[sourcecode language=&quot;bash&quot;]
 _   _                         
&#124; &#124; &#124; &#124; __ _ _ __  _ __  _   _ 
&#124; &#124;_&#124; &#124;/ _` &#124; &#039;_ \&#124; &#039;_ \&#124; &#124; &#124; &#124;
&#124;  _  &#124; (_&#124; &#124; &#124;_) &#124; &#124;_) &#124; &#124;_&#124; &#124;
&#124;_&#124; &#124;_&#124;\__,_&#124; .__/&#124; .__/ \__, &#124;
 _   _      &#124;_&#124;   &#124;_&#124;    &#124;___/ 
&#124; \ &#124; &#124; _____      __
&#124;  \&#124; &#124;/ _ \ \ /\ / /
&#124; &#124;\  &#124;  __/\ V  V / 
&#124;_&#124; \_&#124;\___&#124; \_/\_/  
__   __              _ 
\ \ / /__  __ _ _ __&#124; &#124;
 \ V / _ \/ _` &#124; &#039;__&#124; &#124;
  &#124; &#124;  __/ (_&#124; &#124; &#124;  &#124;_&#124;
  &#124;_&#124;\___&#124;\__,_&#124;_&#124;  (_)
[/sourcecode]


;) ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t jeopardize your marriage on my account! <img src='http://s1.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_eek.gif' alt=':shock:' class='wp-smiley' />  <img src='http://s2.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_mrgreen.gif' alt=':mrgreen:' class='wp-smiley' />  </p>
<pre class="brush: bash; title: ; notranslate">
 _   _                         
| | | | __ _ _ __  _ __  _   _ 
| |_| |/ _` | '_ \| '_ \| | | |
|  _  | (_| | |_) | |_) | |_| |
|_| |_|\__,_| .__/| .__/ \__, |
 _   _      |_|   |_|    |___/ 
| \ | | _____      __
|  \| |/ _ \ \ /\ / /
| |\  |  __/\ V  V / 
|_| \_|\___| \_/\_/  
__   __              _ 
\ \ / /__  __ _ _ __| |
 \ V / _ \/ _` | '__| |
  | |  __/ (_| | |  |_|
  |_|\___|\__,_|_|  (_)
</pre>
<p> <img src='http://s1.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  </p>
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		<title>By: Hippytaff</title>
		<link>http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2010/12/25/rationalizing-a-cli-lifestyle/#comment-47379</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hippytaff]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Dec 2010 21:12:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2010/12/25/rationalizing-a-cli-lifestyle/#comment-47379</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A late Merry Christmas, I made a vow (or promise to the wife) that I would put aside my geekiness and dedicate my time to the family for the christmas period (and rightly so) but I&#039;m breaking the rule briefly to catch up on your blog post and to wish you a merry Christmas and a happy new year!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A late Merry Christmas, I made a vow (or promise to the wife) that I would put aside my geekiness and dedicate my time to the family for the christmas period (and rightly so) but I&#8217;m breaking the rule briefly to catch up on your blog post and to wish you a merry Christmas and a happy new year!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Links 27/12/2010: The Humble Indie Bundle Ends, Mandriva 2010.2 Screenshots &#124; Techrights</title>
		<link>http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2010/12/25/rationalizing-a-cli-lifestyle/#comment-47378</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Links 27/12/2010: The Humble Indie Bundle Ends, Mandriva 2010.2 Screenshots &#124; Techrights]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Dec 2010 19:53:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2010/12/25/rationalizing-a-cli-lifestyle/#comment-47378</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Rationalizing a CLI lifestyle [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Rationalizing a CLI lifestyle [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: raymond300</title>
		<link>http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2010/12/25/rationalizing-a-cli-lifestyle/#comment-47359</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[raymond300]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Dec 2010 05:00:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2010/12/25/rationalizing-a-cli-lifestyle/#comment-47359</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Merry Christmas! Even though it&#039;s Dec 26 :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Merry Christmas! Even though it&#8217;s Dec 26 <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: CorkyAgain</title>
		<link>http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2010/12/25/rationalizing-a-cli-lifestyle/#comment-47345</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[CorkyAgain]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Dec 2010 21:07:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2010/12/25/rationalizing-a-cli-lifestyle/#comment-47345</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I almost included support for ssh in my list of reasons, but then I remembered that you can do X forwarding with ssh.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I almost included support for ssh in my list of reasons, but then I remembered that you can do X forwarding with ssh.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Travis Poppe</title>
		<link>http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2010/12/25/rationalizing-a-cli-lifestyle/#comment-47344</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Travis Poppe]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Dec 2010 20:57:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2010/12/25/rationalizing-a-cli-lifestyle/#comment-47344</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Glad to see someone else who is intrigued by console-only setups. I&#039;ve had fun reading your blog this weekend. 

I&#039;ve been experimenting with console-only systems since I first realized it was possible. X was usually slow or, worse, wouldn&#039;t run at all on some of the older systems I had, so I&#039;d just omit it in favor of svgalib applications (Links2 -g, zgv, etc). This was FreeBSD at the time, so the graphical stuff was different. 

Later I received some free low-end laptops from family and friends, which were practically incapable of running X. So the console tradition continued in that sense.

These days I like to see how Linux performs on ancient systems out of curiosity, and what they can be made to do. I tend to prefer console applications anyway just because they have such a low footprint, and because they work with screen/ssh. 

Still wish there were a good method of doing WWW. ELinks/etc. have never worked with my bank, for example.

Anyway, fun projects! I&#039;ll keep you in my RSS reader. :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glad to see someone else who is intrigued by console-only setups. I&#8217;ve had fun reading your blog this weekend. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been experimenting with console-only systems since I first realized it was possible. X was usually slow or, worse, wouldn&#8217;t run at all on some of the older systems I had, so I&#8217;d just omit it in favor of svgalib applications (Links2 -g, zgv, etc). This was FreeBSD at the time, so the graphical stuff was different. </p>
<p>Later I received some free low-end laptops from family and friends, which were practically incapable of running X. So the console tradition continued in that sense.</p>
<p>These days I like to see how Linux performs on ancient systems out of curiosity, and what they can be made to do. I tend to prefer console applications anyway just because they have such a low footprint, and because they work with screen/ssh. </p>
<p>Still wish there were a good method of doing WWW. ELinks/etc. have never worked with my bank, for example.</p>
<p>Anyway, fun projects! I&#8217;ll keep you in my RSS reader. <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: CorkyAgain</title>
		<link>http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2010/12/25/rationalizing-a-cli-lifestyle/#comment-47343</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[CorkyAgain]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Dec 2010 20:50:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2010/12/25/rationalizing-a-cli-lifestyle/#comment-47343</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Merry Christmas, KMandla and all my fellow readers!

I don&#039;t think CLI is merely a matter of taste, as this article suggests.  Reasons can be given for it.  They might not be compelling reasons for some people, but they are reasons nonetheless.

Here are some of the most common reasons given for favoring the CLI:

- CLI is more sparing of resources, and as our host has so often explained, allows us to continue using older machines which might otherwise be discarded because they can&#039;t run the latest compositing window managers or play flash videos.  CLI apps typically require less memory and hard drive space, and they make minimal demands on the video system.

- CLI puts more power at the user&#039;s fingertips.  The user who has mastered the shell typically understands the system to a greater depth than a GUI user. (I don&#039;t think it&#039;s the case that power users first begin to use the shell after they&#039;ve already mastered the system.  It&#039;s the other way around.  The shell has pedagogic value.  Using it is the best way to *become* a power user.)

- CLI is better for ad hoc tasks that involve applying the same operation to many different operands.  GUI apps *have* been created to perform some of the more common of these tasks, e.g. batch file renaming. But these GUI apps are all specific to a single task.  None of them, as far as I know, provides the kind of open-ended flexibility available on the commandline.

- Because they are typically smaller, CLI apps load faster than most GUI apps.  They&#039;re also more likely to fit within the available physical RAM and run without virtual memory swapping, which means they often run faster than the corresponding GUI apps.

- Most GUI apps use a number of shared libraries (aka DLLs) which must be loaded into memory at runtime. Typically, these libraries remain in memory even when the code they contain is not being used.  In contrast, a shell script might launch many different programs as separate processes in order to perform various subtasks, but once those subtasks have been completed, the programs terminate and the system can recover any resources they were using. (This point is thus an elaboration of the first one.)  

Finally, I want to mention the need to distinguish between the commandline interface (CLI) and a text-mode interface (TUI).  Examples of the latter include many ncurses- or slang-based apps like Midnight Commander or mutt.  

Not all of the benefits of the CLI accrue to TUI apps as well.  

Batch operations, for example, can be as cumbersome in a TUI as they are in a GUI.  But TUI apps are more likely to address this shortcoming by providing a commandline too.  (You can see this solution in both Midnight Commander and mutt.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Merry Christmas, KMandla and all my fellow readers!</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think CLI is merely a matter of taste, as this article suggests.  Reasons can be given for it.  They might not be compelling reasons for some people, but they are reasons nonetheless.</p>
<p>Here are some of the most common reasons given for favoring the CLI:</p>
<p>- CLI is more sparing of resources, and as our host has so often explained, allows us to continue using older machines which might otherwise be discarded because they can&#8217;t run the latest compositing window managers or play flash videos.  CLI apps typically require less memory and hard drive space, and they make minimal demands on the video system.</p>
<p>- CLI puts more power at the user&#8217;s fingertips.  The user who has mastered the shell typically understands the system to a greater depth than a GUI user. (I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s the case that power users first begin to use the shell after they&#8217;ve already mastered the system.  It&#8217;s the other way around.  The shell has pedagogic value.  Using it is the best way to *become* a power user.)</p>
<p>- CLI is better for ad hoc tasks that involve applying the same operation to many different operands.  GUI apps *have* been created to perform some of the more common of these tasks, e.g. batch file renaming. But these GUI apps are all specific to a single task.  None of them, as far as I know, provides the kind of open-ended flexibility available on the commandline.</p>
<p>- Because they are typically smaller, CLI apps load faster than most GUI apps.  They&#8217;re also more likely to fit within the available physical RAM and run without virtual memory swapping, which means they often run faster than the corresponding GUI apps.</p>
<p>- Most GUI apps use a number of shared libraries (aka DLLs) which must be loaded into memory at runtime. Typically, these libraries remain in memory even when the code they contain is not being used.  In contrast, a shell script might launch many different programs as separate processes in order to perform various subtasks, but once those subtasks have been completed, the programs terminate and the system can recover any resources they were using. (This point is thus an elaboration of the first one.)  </p>
<p>Finally, I want to mention the need to distinguish between the commandline interface (CLI) and a text-mode interface (TUI).  Examples of the latter include many ncurses- or slang-based apps like Midnight Commander or mutt.  </p>
<p>Not all of the benefits of the CLI accrue to TUI apps as well.  </p>
<p>Batch operations, for example, can be as cumbersome in a TUI as they are in a GUI.  But TUI apps are more likely to address this shortcoming by providing a commandline too.  (You can see this solution in both Midnight Commander and mutt.)</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Bauer</title>
		<link>http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2010/12/25/rationalizing-a-cli-lifestyle/#comment-47342</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jeff Bauer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Dec 2010 20:42:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2010/12/25/rationalizing-a-cli-lifestyle/#comment-47342</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Interesting convergence here -- with this blog post today from you. I just installed Arch on my old Gateway Solo 5150 (233 MHz PII mmx lappy). With a 4.1G HD, I&#039;m really torn about whether to install xorg or just fly tty-only for a while.

Rest assured, though, that if I do ultimately install xorg, there will be no DE ... just a spartan ratpoison WM.

And merry Christmas, K.Mandla!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting convergence here &#8212; with this blog post today from you. I just installed Arch on my old Gateway Solo 5150 (233 MHz PII mmx lappy). With a 4.1G HD, I&#8217;m really torn about whether to install xorg or just fly tty-only for a while.</p>
<p>Rest assured, though, that if I do ultimately install xorg, there will be no DE &#8230; just a spartan ratpoison WM.</p>
<p>And merry Christmas, K.Mandla!</p>
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